Your website. How do you currently think of it? Is it a Project, a Property, or... could it be a Program?

As soon as Ramy Nagy, Madeo's CEO and Creative Director said, "think of [your website] more as a program," our minds were blown. Then, as his conversation with Justin Wheeler, Funraise CEO and Co-founder, progressed, we had to pick ourselves up so we could be bowled over again and again.

Madeo, a Webby Award-winning, social-impact-focused creative studio, has some pretty clever ideas on how to turn your website into an engagement experience on a par with your programs. With fancy stuff to analyze like KPIs and donor journeys and the "missed opportunity mentality", this interview is a mind-bending game-changer.

Get ready for an incredible listen, with golden nuggets like...

• How to manage your website with a small budget
• Valuing "debrief culture" as a growth mechanism
• Viewing your tech team as program managers
• Implementing visionary investment strategies

And last, but not least, Ramy's Top Rebranding Rule: Don't do it. (Yet.)