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Character and Courage: In the lab with Julie Ordoñez

David Schwab
•
December 4, 2023
•
EPISODE SUMMERY

Julie Ordoñez · CEO and Founder, Julie Ordoñez LLC | From directing philanthropy and being a Major Gift Officer at organizations like New Story, Lift, and United Way of Greater Los Angeles to coaching leaders in raising game-changing gifts, Julie has a unique perspective for growing any organization’s impact.

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EPISODE NOTES

It’s a safe bet that when nonprofiteers talk about their work, the word “passion” will come up pretty quickly. But does passion alone drive impact? Julie Ordoñez says character matters more than passion when it comes to fundraising.

From directing philanthropy and being a Major Gift Officer at organizations like New Story, Lift, and United Way of Greater Los Angeles to coaching leaders in raising game-changing gifts, Julie has a unique perspective for growing any organization’s impact—and that perspective hinges on courage.

Julie even leads an intimate program called Courage Lab designed to help fundraisers make bold asks of individual donors. So get ready, because listeners, today you’re going to get the best of the best advice on how to infuse your asks with character and courage for results that go far beyond the ordinary.

TRANSCRIPT

Hello and welcome to this episode of Nonstop Nonprofit!

It’s a safe bet that when nonprofiteers talk about their work, the word “passion” will come up pretty quickly. But does passion alone drive impact? Julie Ordoñez says character matters more than passion when it comes to fundraising.

From directing philanthropy and being a Major Gift Officer at organizations like New Story, Lift, and United Way of Greater Los Angeles to coaching leaders in raising game-changing gifts, Julie has a unique perspective for growing any organization’s impact—and that perspective hinges on courage.

Julie even leads an intimate program called Courage Lab designed to help fundraisers make bold asks of individual donors. So get ready, because listeners, today you’re going to get the best of the best advice on how to infuse your asks with character and courage for results that go far beyond the ordinary.

 

 

David Schwab Hello, Nonstop Nonprofit podcast. This is your host, David Schwab, and I am joined today by my friend Julie Ordonez. What I'm really excited today to have, Julie on is to share her unique perspective on on fundraising and leadership in the nonprofit space. So, Julie, thank you for joining us today.


 

Julie Ordoñez Thank you so much for having me. David, I'm happy to be here.


 

David Schwab Awesome. Well, Julie, I like to start all of our podcasts with just a little bit of an introduction and background. Just so our listeners can get to know you. So can you go ahead and just give us a little bit of a background? What brought you to the nonprofit sector and obviously you've been in the nonprofit sector for a while now. What's kept you around for as long as it has?


 

Julie Ordoñez I needed a job, and so I started working at a nonprofit because I needed a job, David. And a friend who knew me was like, You know what? I think you would be good at fundraising. And a friend of mine runs a community center in South Los Angeles. I think you should go for this job. And I was like, Huh? Fundraising is a job. I had just graduated and got my bachelor's from Texas Christian University, TCU, Go Frogs! And in communication and Spanish and Latin American Studies. And growing up, my dream was to be a news anchor. Actually, I loved Oprah and Barbara Walters, and I thought, maybe I'm going to be in journalism. But I really became super passionate about helping others in a more tangible way. And I thought nonprofit was the way to go. That seemed obvious to me. So, yeah, that was my first role in fundraising 14 years ago. And I learned so much. I had zero experience with fundraising and they knew that. And my boss said, You know, Julie, we want to hire you, even though we've had other applicants who have more experience because we think that you'll help us build the culture that we're trying to build and we'll train you in fundraising. Mm hmm. And they actually did that, which now, in hindsight, I realize, is so rare, sadly. But they invested in me as a professional, and I didn't know that I was supposed to be transactional and just call people and like, Hey, will you give us money? And, hey, you know, I just started building relationships with people. I love people. I was fascinated by them. I wanted to hear their stories. Why did they decide to give $25,000? That seemed wild to me that people would just do that. Yeah.


 

David Schwab When that's your, like, annual paycheck.


 

Julie Ordoñez For sure. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And I'm like, people just do this. Like, to me, it didn't I didn't come in with a sense of entitlement, like, oh, what we're doing is so amazing. And people, people should, if they're rich, they should give to us. You know, I didn't I just I knew that there was something really special about people, even though there's there's tax advantages and there are incentives for people, right? They get to appear philanthropic. Their company is seen as giving back to the community. Like there are lots of reasons why people give. But it still struck me like, wow, this is so cool. Like, I get to know people who care enough to give because you certainly don't have to. And there's plenty of people who give nothing. Mm hmm. So that was my first role in in fundraising. And a year later, two months before my wedding, actually, I was fired. So there's hope. If you think you suck at fundraising, don't let that be the last word. I guess because my grant writing wasn't up to par, I was. My boss said, You know what? If this was a major gifts event planning role, I'd keep you on. But it's not. And looking back now, that job was like five people's jobs. Yeah, but I was. I was fresh and new and green, and I had no idea that what they were asking of me was unreasonable. Right. And that's so common. But after that, my big dream was to work at United Way. That's where I really gained my fundraising chops. I had an extraordinary mentor who you all have actually had on the podcast, I believe, Newcastle Solomon, who is now the CEO of Free Wheelchair Mission. She's incredible leader and major Gifts fundraiser, and she taught me so much. So mentorship and being around peers and community changed everything for me, and that was really where I blossomed and started raising millions and. Became more bold and courageous in what I was raising money for and who I was as a human being.


 

David Schwab The story of your progression in your fundraising career and in the sector. I think it starts out like a lot of hours. Did like I know I myself, for lack of a better term, stumbled into starting my career as a fundraiser. I didn't know that was a thing. I knew organizations needed to raise funds. I didn't realize there were entire departments and companies dedicated to like creating an industry out of fundraising. Right. But the more you're in it, the more you're plugged into it, the bigger it becomes. But you didn't just you didn't have the natural progression, right? Like you talked about, you started. And like all too many nonprofit professionals are doing five, six, seven jobs in one. That didn't work out for you. But eventually you work your way into a really impactful role as a major gift officer. So what was that progression like and what what took you from that like accidental fundraiser into a very intentional, very successful major gift officer?


 

Julie Ordoñez That's a really good question. I think that it goes back to I didn't even know that quote, Major gifts was a type of fundraising. I knew that I wanted to work at United Way because United Way of Greater Los Angeles, even to this day. But back then was funding all of these local organizations. And I saw that as like the pinnacle. Like, well, that's my dream. If I work United Way all made it, you know, I'll be big time. And oh, they were hiring at the time were like temp campaign associates like super entry level. And I was even overqualified for that job. But I went for it because I wanted to get my foot in the door. And I remember interviewing and in my interview, I was like, Listen, I want a permanent job here. What's it going to take? And they were like, Well, you know, this is a pipeline for us. So if you do well in this temporary position, it is common that we'll hire someone on full-time. And I didn't even make it through that temporary assignment because the VP of development at the time had heard about me and that I was doing well. I was I was raising money from federal employees during government shutdowns and furloughs. And I had managed to raise over $800,000 by people like federal employees who are giving through their paychecks in a really rough time. And, you know, I'm like talking to groups of hundreds of people and they're pretty checked out and morale is really low and most of them are coming just for the coffee and donuts. Like, they didn't really care. And I found a way to connect with people. And the VP of development had heard about me and was like, Hey, you know, my boss said, Oh, the VP wants to meet with you. And I was like, What did I do? Like, you know? And I sit down and he's like, Listen, I think that you have a future and major gifts. And I think that there's an opening on the team. I want you to be a part of this team that I'm building. And I was like, What? Oh, okay. And I think it was just like seeing someone else in who who saw me, saw something in me that I didn't even know was there really. And saying yes, even though I didn't feel ready, I didn't know what I was getting myself into. But when opportunities came, just jumping on it. And I would say becoming formidable because I became a top 1% performer with 90 full-time employees was about mentorship and about peers. Actually, it was about having an amazing mentor who was who happening, My manager. I just I got lucky. I was super blessed. And she would like close seven-figure gifts over the phone from people she had never met and call me from at my cubicle. Right. These are the days where everybody is in a cubicle and like, get in here, Julie. And I'm like, okay. And I just. I just knew to bring my notepad and my pen and just go in and listen. And she would put it on speaker and like, Oh, hey, you know, Julie's here in the room with me. I'm just going to let her listen in and the door and be like, okay, yeah. And they're like, Yeah. So, you know, and she would close the script and then they would say, Oh yeah, and there's more coming. And then she'd hang up the phone, $1 million. And I'm like, What? What just happened? And she's like, okay, so let me walk you through how this happened. We would debrief. Mm hmm. And to have that type of mentorship and that access and someone who believed in me, people would reach out to her and give her speaking gigs and opportunities to come and speak at Northern Trust in front of all of their executive. And she'd say, no, I want Julie to go. Hmm. I mean, I had somebody in my corner who actually saw me and would give me opportunities that people were giving to her. Who doesn't want to go so far above and beyond somebody like that? When you work for someone like that who doesn't feel threatened by you, and I think that was a lot of my experience was people were like, okay, yeah, we get it. You're really ambitious and you want to raise millions of dollars because you just pipe down. Yeah. Like, I'd always be like, Why are we talk? Why are there five people in here talking about a $50,000 gift like this is a waste of resources. Like, couldn't one person just go figure this out? And then if you need help, ask for help.


 

David Schwab Right? Like.


 

Julie Ordoñez I was like and I had someone and I had peers like the other major gifts officers on the team. We had a small team, but we were at the time, the only ones who were in the green in the entire fundraising department of, you know, 26 full time employees in the development department, Major gifts was in the green. And that was because we just we were really good team. Like it was a team effort. And I really rose up and saw a lot of what I was capable of because I was surrounded by people who were constantly challenging the status quo and encouraging each other and wanting to be the best. We were competitive. And I just thrived in that really high challenge environment.


 

David Schwab It's so interesting listening to you talk about this, because I know like now you're your coach and you coach major gift officers and you and you coach leaders. But what I'm hearing is as this context comes through is you learned the craft by watching it demonstrated to you. And so many people don't have that opportunity. It makes so much sense to see you work yourself into that role as a coach and for lack of a better term, return the favor of being able to demonstrate what courageous fundraising looks like. And Julie, as we were having a conversation, one of our conversations before this, you said something that reminded me of a mutual friend of ours, Andrew Olson. Andrew was on the podcast about a year ago, and he said something at the time that kind of just left me speechless. And I had to like quickly gather myself because, you know, I'm posting the podcast and I got to cover conversation, like he said, targeted to to executive leaders at organizations. If you're more comfortable in maintaining the status quo and your comfort than you are about accelerating the impact of your organization, you're probably in the wrong seat.


 

Julie Ordoñez Mm hmm.


 

David Schwab And in one of our conversations recently, you said something that that reminded me of that you said quite bluntly, People are afraid to do their jobs. They lack the courage to make the impact that their organizations need. And that's where I want to I want to go for the next portion of our conversation is what brought you to that conclusion that it's maybe not an education or a talent or even like an equipping issue. It's a character issue that is hurting our sector from making the impact that it should.


 

Julie Ordoñez Yes. So the good news is that many of us are cowards. Because we have control over that. And even, you know, when I when I first started in fundraising, people were, like, apologetic. And that was kind of the vibe. That was the sense that I got was like, oh, oh, I got a raise, you know, $1.2 million. But I got to do it on eggshells. Mm hmm. Like, for some reason. And I was like, Why? What we're doing is amazing. Like, we're actually changing lives, and people get to be a part of that. Like, why? And definitely I have been a coward. I definitely when I was at United Way, I'm sitting down with a with a partner from a big law firm and I take up an hour of his time and all I can bring myself to ask for is $2,500. And I'll never forget the look on his face. He was like, He was so disappointed. He was like, Sure, Julie, here's $2,500. And he pulled out his checkbook from his briefcase right then and wrote it out and was like, Have a great week and walked away. And I think I learned so much from that meeting that I will never forget it. It was a branded in my mind that we can waste people's time by asking for too little. Mm hmm. If someone is actually in your corner, if they are passionate about the mission. Passion, meaning they're willing to sacrifice for it. They're willing to give up an hour of their time. And for this guy, his billable hours, I don't know what that is. You know, he's losing out time with his family, with his kids, with doing whatever else he could be doing with his time that he cannot get back. And because I personally viewed $2,500 as a lot of money as a 25 year old.


 

David Schwab Right.


 

Julie Ordoñez I mean, but for him, it was like, really? You asked me here for an hour of my time and you told me all about what you're doing to end homelessness. And all you're going to ask me for is $2,500. Sure. Here you go. See? Never.


 

David Schwab Yeah.


 

Julie Ordoñez And the more relationships that I built, the more networking that I did, the more that I connected with other fundraisers, other major gifts' officers, people in all types of fundraising roles. It was pervasive. People were terrified. They're like, Oh, I would rather work myself to the bone. David, and do 80 hour weeks planning a gala that we don't even make any money doing that. We just barely break even. I'd rather apply for grants and get $0 than talk to one person and ask them to their face for ten grand. Like I would rather do anything like sign me up for a root canal before I do major gifts. And I'm like, How are these people? I mean, it's it's kind of absurd. How are people paid to do these jobs? Like you are paid to raise money. If you're a nonprofit CEO, a big chunk of your role is to serve as a major gifts officer. If you are the head of development, if you are a development officer, it's it's your it's within your integrity to actually do the job to the fullest extent. And what I see so often is people are going back and forth about whether or not they're going to do their job. Like they're like, oh, I need to collect these company logos for the Web site. Oh, I got to organize them. I'm like, no, you don't. Like, your job is fundraising. Like, how do you not have time to do that? Like, oh, because we're cowards. Because we are so concerned with making the board member who's ignorant happy. With meeting other people's expectations who are also well-meaning and well-intentioned but entirely ignorant about what it takes to raise money. That we're apologetic because we're so consumed with taking care of people's feelings. And this is a particular burden on women and women of color. They have even more obstacles and barriers to overcome with this that society expects them to perform at a higher level with even less support and more barriers. And it's an inside job. So here we are and we go to all these trainings and we're so concerned with strategy and all of these things, but we don't have the guts to implement what we learn. And this is pervasive. Mm hmm. People think that their problems are special, but I'm like, Your problems are you don't have the guts to implement what you already know to do. Like you know what to do. You just don't do it. That's the problem. And it has to do with what do we really value? What do we believe about who we are? What do we believe about donors? Do we believe that they're stingy and greedy? Like all of these things have to do with whether we feel encouraged to take bold action or not. And so that's why I created my program Courage Lab, because I was like, there's nowhere you could go in the market that's going to help you learn major gifts strategy that's going to train you how to ask, how to close. What do you do with 45 minutes with a donor? What do you say? And is going to address the fact that you are full of fear to even get a meeting? There was nowhere in the market that you could go, David, to address that reality. And I'm like, well, I'm just going to become a student of courage and I'm going to teach this because this is the biggest barrier to us changing the world. Courage is the catalyst. It is the thing that is encouraging because we have control over who we become and who we are. If we stay in cowardice or if we decide to become courageous people. And that's good news.


 

David Schwab I can't tell you how excited it makes me feel just listening to you talk about this and like, I spend so much time with the sales team at fundraisers because like, my job is, is to help our company grow, right? And a lot of that is partnering with our sales team. And so much of what I gather from the conversations that our sales team have and there's there's a like the connection connective tissue between major gift officer and and sales roles are so, so similar and those connections have been made ad nauseum. But one of the conversations that I think makes the most sense in this picture that I have often with the sales team is you're not offering someone a tchotchke, right? Like at fundraisers, we are not offering something someone doesn't need. Like we are giving you a tool to help you better engage with your donors so you can raise more funds faster and make a bigger impact. Who doesn't want that, right? Yeah. Like go in boldly to these conversations because you're offering something that someone doesn't know that they need. But once they understand they need it, they're really going to want it. How much more? So is a major gift, officer, Like you're not selling something someone doesn't need. You're offering someone a chance to make a difference in the world that they care about. Yep. And are you limiting their impact by your fear of asking them to make the impact they're capable of?


 

Julie Ordoñez Right.

 

 

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David Schwab As our listeners are listening to this, most are doing final prep on their year-end fundraising strategy, fundraising planning. Julie, how can we help our listeners who are going? I have a delta between where I am and where I need to be, and it is a lot bigger than I think I can handle. What are some things that major gift officers and fundraising teams can do as we think about year-end to secure that big whale meeting? Right. To plan a program where you're disappointed at the success even though it's three X, which you did last year. What are the ways to navigate conversations during the year-end with potential major donors or even existing major donors? And so that's that's part one. And then peppered in there, I really want to think about like the mindset of a major gift officer during your own fundraising and how how can you be courageous and approach this year? Because we know this is going to be one of the more difficult years. Many people in the industry have ever had to raise funds during the end of the year.


 

Julie Ordoñez That's great. So a few maxims or beliefs that I try to instill in my clients and that I believe. Giving is a gift to the giver and that's what you just touched on, that what you're building is a gift for that person to be a part of, truly. That there are hundreds, thousands potentially of people who are mission-aligned, care deeply and are ready to step up and give right now. They're already there you just need to follow up with them, you need to make it easier for them to give. You need to get to know them, connect with them. So it is in many ways getting in a lot of reps. It is a volume game for some of those bigger shops. If you're raising millions of dollars already, then a lot of times it is about getting through your portfolio and touching base with people and disqualifying leads who are no longer interested, no longer aligned. It's not their priority to give to your mission and you need to like move on faster and stop mulling it over. Like if you're going to build more courage, a big component of that is getting around people who are also becoming more courageous. You don't become a more courageous person in isolation. Actually, you don't change at all in isolation. We devolve in isolation. So the only way to actually overcome mediocrity and overcome our old habits and talking ourselves out of taking action and I had a client today was like, Yeah, Julie, I just really love to pick your brain because there's somebody that I just been going back and forth about Should I reach out or what should I ask them for? Like how much, you know, they they're going to have this wealth event possibly in March. Should I ask them for an end-of-year gift? I am like, okay, so first thing, let's address the fact that you're going back and forth about it. So you're you're headed into your logical strategic thinking mind, which that portion of our mind takes a hell of a lot of energy. And and you're using it on, let's be honest, an opportunity that maybe they give 5 or 10. K Right. And he's like, Yeah, okay, so we're going to stop that. If it's not an opportunity that's over 50 K, I don't want you to spend a ton of time going back and forth. That's a waste of time and energy, ultimately money. So if it's something like that, it's pretty low risk. You can level with them. You can say, Hey, I know you're having this wealth event in March, but I know you're really passionate, David, about what we're doing. So would you consider giving something year end. And just have a freaking conversation with a human being? We're so focused on money, actually, that it suffocates our revenue. It suffocates our success. And what I tell my clients is we're not we're not coming for their money. We're coming for their whole life. And that includes their money. I don't want people to limit themselves to just focusing on money with people. Because it feels gross First of all, because it is and because this isn't actually about money. This is about changing the world. This is about a specific impact. And when you engage someone from that place of I know that this is a gift to them and their life, we're bringing meaning and purpose. We're bringing connection to them. This is a gift to them. And if this person if it's not the right time or if they say no, there's a thousand other people who will say yes. If you approach it from that perspective and just connect with another human being, you will raise way more money. When I come to a donor meeting and I'm like, Hey, so this is what we do want to join. I'd love for you to consider giving $300,000. What do you think? And I'm not like, you know, so our goals are and 2 million and would you could you you know it's like no either you want and or you don't and it's all good if you don't want to join. Listen, I got so many other meetings that I'm going to go meet with and we can stay in touch. But, like, there's no there's no pressure. You know, and and when we don't take action, when we go back and forth about something, we erode our confidence. We slowly are like, oh, my gosh, I'm an imposter. I don't know what I'm doing. I haven't raised any money. And then you just keep overthinking, talking to one person, and this one conversation becomes such a big deal. But it's just one rep. Mm hmm. Right. So it is in many ways a game of volume like you have. If you want to get better, you first have to be okay with being bad. Mm hmm. And just decide that you're going to take risks because your why is worth it. The community that you're fighting for is worth you being uncomfortable, and you're going to get better as you go. I've gone on well over a thousand donor meetings. I have absolutely put my foot in my mouth many times. And I've learned because of that that nobody can teach me. Nobody can take that away. It's in my bones. So because of that, I come in with even greater confidence because I've had all these reps and I know that failure can't kill me. It just can't. I'm literally unstoppable because I've done it bad. I've done it great. I've turned a 20 K gift into a $300,000 gift in one conversation because I've done this a lot and I have built that skill set over the course of time. So getting into action and getting around other people who are also asking for more is really critical if you want to become more courageous fundraiser.


 

David Schwab So if I'm parroting, do it. Ask, ask often and surround yourself with people who aren't afraid to ask and ask often.


 

Julie Ordoñez Yes. And get to know people as human beings. Like when you ask them for more and they're in they're literally more bought in. Yeah. So they will bring more of their life to the table. They'll say, Hey, David, you know what? Actually, I'm going to give you $25,000 this year because you asked and I have this event that I'm going to. And it's a bunch of other executives. I'd like for you to be my plus one. They'll start opening up organically, you know, doors to you because they're seeing that you're serious about this. You're no longer apologetic about raising money. And so now they're going to open up their life to you in ways that they didn't before.


 

David Schwab That is something that I have been spending quite a bit of time recently thinking about, that you just touched on, is it's one thing to unlock a donor's wallet and have them give a gift. It's another thing to unlock a donor's passion and have them give a substantial gift. It's a whole different ballgame to unlock specifically a major donors network. And what you just talked about could possibly be the most influential action a major gift officer can take is building the relationship not just to unlock the donor. The major donors philanthropic generosity. But unlock access to their network. Because that compounds the impact that that one conversation, that one relationship that you've invested in building is able to do. Can you tell us just story time here? Tell us about a time where you've experienced that.


 

Julie Ordoñez Yeah, I can think of so many. I remember, gosh, when I was director of development, I lived Los Angeles, which was such a fun job. What an incredible organization. So impactful. Amazing advisory board. And they helped with fundraising, which unfortunately is kind of rare. Right? I mean, and the board chair at the time was Kash Warren and really, really passionate and a competitive guy. And I was like, okay, I know that you want to do a good job as board chair and you kind of want to like, you want to kill it. And he was like, Yeah. And I was like, Great. So let's sit down and talk about, like, what you can do. So we did. We met up in his favorite spot to meet, and we went through and he just started talking. He's telling me the names of his friends and people in his network and he'd say like, Oh, I think this person can do something. And I'd say, okay, well, what's something? And he's like, oh, you know, like 15 K Okay, great. So I write that down. I'm, I'm just taking notes and just listening to him kind of talk. Fast forward a year later and through his network, he had raised over $225,000. And this is new money. Mm hmm. And I was able to work with him and his assistant to hold accountable to all the things that he said he was going to do and support him. And he did an amazing job. And I think part of why that was successful was because I saw his desire to do a really good job and I actually put him to work. And oftentimes I think a lot of CEOs, a lot of VP's of development, even have some complaints about how their board doesn't do enough for them right there. The board is they're great cheerleaders, but they remain largely unhelpful. And I think being really specific and clear about what it the help is that you need and seeing where that board member or even donor trusted volunteer, where they're at, where their energy is and and actually leveraging that so that they feel like a success. And that makes the team successful, that makes the organization successful. You really have to see people. You have to have conversations with them and get to know them and understand what their motivation is, understand what drives them. And and I think that that takes time. And time is at a premium. We don't have a lot of it and this and that. The frustrating thing for me is I see a lot of executives spend the most time with the people who have a lot of complaints and who are the loudest. And the people who are really in your corner, the people who would go. Walk a thousand miles with you. Don't really get any of your time. And that is a massive mistake. And again, it has to do with courage. If someone is toxic, we need to fire them. We need to release them. Mm hmm. And probably if you already know who that is, you need to do it yesterday. And then you will have the space, the bandwidth, the energy to be able to invest in people who would multiply ten times what you pour into them because they're in your corner. They're they're catalytic. They're people who have energy and motivation and enthusiasm for what you're doing, and you need to put those people to work.


 

David Schwab That's awesome. And I think something that can be become so fruitful as major gift to officers and fundraisers in general, build relationships and build relationships. They learn how to identify those relationships that unlock other relationships. And how do you create those warm introductions and how do you get people to work for you? Because they want to and they're passionate about it, even though they get nothing out of it other than that really substantial feeling of making an impact. Julia We're going to be winding our time down here, but I have to ask from your expert perspective, all of the conversations you're having with major gift officers and the people you work with and the people you coach, I'm assuming you have a really you'll have a really insightful opinion on this, but I want to ask you what trends you see coming our way. Either specific as as a major gift officer or fundraising trends in general as we wind down the rest of 2023 and look to 2024, what are a few trends that you're hearing? A lot of people are paying attention to or you yourself are paying attention to, and how are you navigating those?


 

Julie Ordoñez David I hope that I don't disappoint you, but I don't really care that much about trends. You know, a lot of people are talking about AI and, you know, so many of my clients use AI to to write do a lot of copywriting, which for me, I can often tell immediately that it's I, you know, I just kind of see it as right now a lot of AI is, is pretty mediocre. So I'm not really interested in mediocrity. I would rather help people actually become great writers. I think what I'm, I think is an enduring foundational piece of fundraising success is relationship building and actually the rise of AI highlights that I will never be able to empathize. I will never be able to tell its story. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And there are some things that, as human beings are going to become even more valuable and priceless because we. We get so little of it, which is authentic connection with each other. And I think that that's really what this is all about. I would love for nonprofit leaders to build an army of people who are mission-aligned and who are ready to join the fight and roll up their sleeves and give a massive amount of money and give from their lives, from their network. Mm hmm. Opening up doors and opportunities. Making it happen. Because what we're setting out to achieve, it's going to take a lot of capital, but it's going to take even more than that. Mm hmm. And I think that people who authentically care about others, it's just becoming even more rare. And I think that that's a big way in which you can stand out, is if you really care about people and you treat them as a whole human being beyond their wallet and their assets. That's going to make people stand out moving forward because we are seeing a decline in a lot of giving. We're seeing a decline in people stepping up and giving. And I think that at the core, people are are truly generous. I just think that we make it so hard for them to give and to stick with us.


 

David Schwab Yeah, I think I heard a couple of things. One of the things I heard specifically and I completely agree with. Artificial intelligence widely acknowledged as the great equalizer. And a lot of people think that's a great thing because it brings it brings people who have lesser talents, lesser skills in a certain area up to a higher caliber. But what we often overlook is the fact that it brings high achievers and people who excel at a at a practice down. So what I'm the trend that that you. You are picking up on us as we progressively become more vanilla. Be chocolate or strawberry or something that stands out.


 

Julie Ordoñez Now I want ice cream.


 

David Schwab It's almost time. I'm going to dinner right after this. And they just opened a new restaurant in town and they're known for, like, the big pizza-sized cookies with ice cream on it.


 

Julie Ordoñez Ah yeah.


 

David Schwab And. So I may, I may have an ulterior motive for bringing that up.


 

Julie Ordoñez Got it. Got it.


 

David Schwab Refocusing at a time when people are devaluing relationships and anonymity is becoming the expectation when you can foster relationships and that feeling of being known. You will find great areas of success. You talked about one other trend that's facing us. It's it's I often refer to it as the headwinds going into this season of and everyone we're not I promise we're not going to unpack again the giving report of 2020 to 2023 where revenue is down and giving is down all this humdrum Ilike you I don't think the motivation has changed. I think people are being more intentional with their giving. So at a time when we're facing headwinds and it looks like giving is down and it looks like philanthropy and generosity is down. What is one courageous thing our listeners can do this giving season and beyond to buck that trend?


 

Julie Ordoñez Name what you see in your donors. Mm hmm. If you see that they are generous people, tell them if you see that they are kind and caring. Tell them if you actually truly want to partner with them because of what they bring and who they are. Tell them. Call out the characteristics that you see in them as to why you want them to be on your team and support you financially and then ask them for more. That formula is evergreen. It has served me my entire career. It speaks to exactly what you're talking about, David, that people want to feel known and actually be known. Mm hmm. And it's I see my clients do that all the time, and it brings that person closer. They feel like an extension of your team. They show up for you in ways that you don't even have to ask. And, you know, practically speaking, ask people who have dafs donor-advised funds for even more money. Mm hmm. If there's a gap that needs to be made up for. Ask them. Ask people who are really in your corner to give more. Ask for non-liquid assets. Stop asking for cash. Ask for $50K, $100K, $250K. Ask for what you actually need. Stop playing it cool. And ask for non-liquid assets. Ask for appreciated stock. Ask for them to give from assets that they have that you know maybe they haven't considered previously. We train donors to think about cash and credit cards and we leave so much on the table because people want to give more and 90% of wealth is non-liquid.


 

David Schwab Mm hmm. Julie, so much great insight during this episode and throughout this conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today. As we wrap here, I'm assuming everyone listening is going to want to go deeper with you. Where is a great place for our listeners to connect with you? Reach out and engage with you.


 

Julie Ordoñez I love LinkedIn. So hang out with me there. Julie Ordonez Oh, audio and easy. You can also head to my website. Julie ordonez.com. You can sign up for my mailing list. I share all kinds of major gifts, trainings and resources that will help you raise major gifts instantly if you join that. So I want to help as many missions and as many leaders as I possibly can. I want to create a more generous and just world. That's my personal mission and why I do this. So connect with me. I would love to connect.


 

David Schwab Well, everybody, thank you for listening. This has been a jam-packed episode. So much to unpack. I hope you go back, listen to it. I look forward to hearing what you all think. Remember. Subscribe. Leave us a comment. Leave us a review and let us know what you think on LinkedIn. Thanks, everybody.

 

 

Thanks for listening to this episode of Nonstop Nonprofit! This podcast is brought to you by your friends at Funraise - Nonprofit fundraising software, built for nonprofit people by nonprofit people. If you’d like to continue the conversation, find me on LinkedIn or text me at 714-717-2474. 

And don’t forget to get your next episode the second it hits the internets. Find us on your favorite podcast streaming service, hit that follow button and leave us a review to help us reach more nonprofit people like you! See you next time!

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PODCAST

Character and Courage: In the lab with Julie Ordoñez

Character and Courage: In the lab with Julie Ordoñez

David Schwab
November 30, 2023
•
EPISODE SUMMERY

Julie Ordoñez · CEO and Founder, Julie Ordoñez LLC | From directing philanthropy and being a Major Gift Officer at organizations like New Story, Lift, and United Way of Greater Los Angeles to coaching leaders in raising game-changing gifts, Julie has a unique perspective for growing any organization’s impact.

LISTEN
EPISODE NOTES

It’s a safe bet that when nonprofiteers talk about their work, the word “passion” will come up pretty quickly. But does passion alone drive impact? Julie Ordoñez says character matters more than passion when it comes to fundraising.

From directing philanthropy and being a Major Gift Officer at organizations like New Story, Lift, and United Way of Greater Los Angeles to coaching leaders in raising game-changing gifts, Julie has a unique perspective for growing any organization’s impact—and that perspective hinges on courage.

Julie even leads an intimate program called Courage Lab designed to help fundraisers make bold asks of individual donors. So get ready, because listeners, today you’re going to get the best of the best advice on how to infuse your asks with character and courage for results that go far beyond the ordinary.

TRANSCRIPT

Hello and welcome to this episode of Nonstop Nonprofit!

It’s a safe bet that when nonprofiteers talk about their work, the word “passion” will come up pretty quickly. But does passion alone drive impact? Julie Ordoñez says character matters more than passion when it comes to fundraising.

From directing philanthropy and being a Major Gift Officer at organizations like New Story, Lift, and United Way of Greater Los Angeles to coaching leaders in raising game-changing gifts, Julie has a unique perspective for growing any organization’s impact—and that perspective hinges on courage.

Julie even leads an intimate program called Courage Lab designed to help fundraisers make bold asks of individual donors. So get ready, because listeners, today you’re going to get the best of the best advice on how to infuse your asks with character and courage for results that go far beyond the ordinary.

 

 

David Schwab Hello, Nonstop Nonprofit podcast. This is your host, David Schwab, and I am joined today by my friend Julie Ordonez. What I'm really excited today to have, Julie on is to share her unique perspective on on fundraising and leadership in the nonprofit space. So, Julie, thank you for joining us today.


 

Julie Ordoñez Thank you so much for having me. David, I'm happy to be here.


 

David Schwab Awesome. Well, Julie, I like to start all of our podcasts with just a little bit of an introduction and background. Just so our listeners can get to know you. So can you go ahead and just give us a little bit of a background? What brought you to the nonprofit sector and obviously you've been in the nonprofit sector for a while now. What's kept you around for as long as it has?


 

Julie Ordoñez I needed a job, and so I started working at a nonprofit because I needed a job, David. And a friend who knew me was like, You know what? I think you would be good at fundraising. And a friend of mine runs a community center in South Los Angeles. I think you should go for this job. And I was like, Huh? Fundraising is a job. I had just graduated and got my bachelor's from Texas Christian University, TCU, Go Frogs! And in communication and Spanish and Latin American Studies. And growing up, my dream was to be a news anchor. Actually, I loved Oprah and Barbara Walters, and I thought, maybe I'm going to be in journalism. But I really became super passionate about helping others in a more tangible way. And I thought nonprofit was the way to go. That seemed obvious to me. So, yeah, that was my first role in fundraising 14 years ago. And I learned so much. I had zero experience with fundraising and they knew that. And my boss said, You know, Julie, we want to hire you, even though we've had other applicants who have more experience because we think that you'll help us build the culture that we're trying to build and we'll train you in fundraising. Mm hmm. And they actually did that, which now, in hindsight, I realize, is so rare, sadly. But they invested in me as a professional, and I didn't know that I was supposed to be transactional and just call people and like, Hey, will you give us money? And, hey, you know, I just started building relationships with people. I love people. I was fascinated by them. I wanted to hear their stories. Why did they decide to give $25,000? That seemed wild to me that people would just do that. Yeah.


 

David Schwab When that's your, like, annual paycheck.


 

Julie Ordoñez For sure. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And I'm like, people just do this. Like, to me, it didn't I didn't come in with a sense of entitlement, like, oh, what we're doing is so amazing. And people, people should, if they're rich, they should give to us. You know, I didn't I just I knew that there was something really special about people, even though there's there's tax advantages and there are incentives for people, right? They get to appear philanthropic. Their company is seen as giving back to the community. Like there are lots of reasons why people give. But it still struck me like, wow, this is so cool. Like, I get to know people who care enough to give because you certainly don't have to. And there's plenty of people who give nothing. Mm hmm. So that was my first role in in fundraising. And a year later, two months before my wedding, actually, I was fired. So there's hope. If you think you suck at fundraising, don't let that be the last word. I guess because my grant writing wasn't up to par, I was. My boss said, You know what? If this was a major gifts event planning role, I'd keep you on. But it's not. And looking back now, that job was like five people's jobs. Yeah, but I was. I was fresh and new and green, and I had no idea that what they were asking of me was unreasonable. Right. And that's so common. But after that, my big dream was to work at United Way. That's where I really gained my fundraising chops. I had an extraordinary mentor who you all have actually had on the podcast, I believe, Newcastle Solomon, who is now the CEO of Free Wheelchair Mission. She's incredible leader and major Gifts fundraiser, and she taught me so much. So mentorship and being around peers and community changed everything for me, and that was really where I blossomed and started raising millions and. Became more bold and courageous in what I was raising money for and who I was as a human being.


 

David Schwab The story of your progression in your fundraising career and in the sector. I think it starts out like a lot of hours. Did like I know I myself, for lack of a better term, stumbled into starting my career as a fundraiser. I didn't know that was a thing. I knew organizations needed to raise funds. I didn't realize there were entire departments and companies dedicated to like creating an industry out of fundraising. Right. But the more you're in it, the more you're plugged into it, the bigger it becomes. But you didn't just you didn't have the natural progression, right? Like you talked about, you started. And like all too many nonprofit professionals are doing five, six, seven jobs in one. That didn't work out for you. But eventually you work your way into a really impactful role as a major gift officer. So what was that progression like and what what took you from that like accidental fundraiser into a very intentional, very successful major gift officer?


 

Julie Ordoñez That's a really good question. I think that it goes back to I didn't even know that quote, Major gifts was a type of fundraising. I knew that I wanted to work at United Way because United Way of Greater Los Angeles, even to this day. But back then was funding all of these local organizations. And I saw that as like the pinnacle. Like, well, that's my dream. If I work United Way all made it, you know, I'll be big time. And oh, they were hiring at the time were like temp campaign associates like super entry level. And I was even overqualified for that job. But I went for it because I wanted to get my foot in the door. And I remember interviewing and in my interview, I was like, Listen, I want a permanent job here. What's it going to take? And they were like, Well, you know, this is a pipeline for us. So if you do well in this temporary position, it is common that we'll hire someone on full-time. And I didn't even make it through that temporary assignment because the VP of development at the time had heard about me and that I was doing well. I was I was raising money from federal employees during government shutdowns and furloughs. And I had managed to raise over $800,000 by people like federal employees who are giving through their paychecks in a really rough time. And, you know, I'm like talking to groups of hundreds of people and they're pretty checked out and morale is really low and most of them are coming just for the coffee and donuts. Like, they didn't really care. And I found a way to connect with people. And the VP of development had heard about me and was like, Hey, you know, my boss said, Oh, the VP wants to meet with you. And I was like, What did I do? Like, you know? And I sit down and he's like, Listen, I think that you have a future and major gifts. And I think that there's an opening on the team. I want you to be a part of this team that I'm building. And I was like, What? Oh, okay. And I think it was just like seeing someone else in who who saw me, saw something in me that I didn't even know was there really. And saying yes, even though I didn't feel ready, I didn't know what I was getting myself into. But when opportunities came, just jumping on it. And I would say becoming formidable because I became a top 1% performer with 90 full-time employees was about mentorship and about peers. Actually, it was about having an amazing mentor who was who happening, My manager. I just I got lucky. I was super blessed. And she would like close seven-figure gifts over the phone from people she had never met and call me from at my cubicle. Right. These are the days where everybody is in a cubicle and like, get in here, Julie. And I'm like, okay. And I just. I just knew to bring my notepad and my pen and just go in and listen. And she would put it on speaker and like, Oh, hey, you know, Julie's here in the room with me. I'm just going to let her listen in and the door and be like, okay, yeah. And they're like, Yeah. So, you know, and she would close the script and then they would say, Oh yeah, and there's more coming. And then she'd hang up the phone, $1 million. And I'm like, What? What just happened? And she's like, okay, so let me walk you through how this happened. We would debrief. Mm hmm. And to have that type of mentorship and that access and someone who believed in me, people would reach out to her and give her speaking gigs and opportunities to come and speak at Northern Trust in front of all of their executive. And she'd say, no, I want Julie to go. Hmm. I mean, I had somebody in my corner who actually saw me and would give me opportunities that people were giving to her. Who doesn't want to go so far above and beyond somebody like that? When you work for someone like that who doesn't feel threatened by you, and I think that was a lot of my experience was people were like, okay, yeah, we get it. You're really ambitious and you want to raise millions of dollars because you just pipe down. Yeah. Like, I'd always be like, Why are we talk? Why are there five people in here talking about a $50,000 gift like this is a waste of resources. Like, couldn't one person just go figure this out? And then if you need help, ask for help.


 

David Schwab Right? Like.


 

Julie Ordoñez I was like and I had someone and I had peers like the other major gifts officers on the team. We had a small team, but we were at the time, the only ones who were in the green in the entire fundraising department of, you know, 26 full time employees in the development department, Major gifts was in the green. And that was because we just we were really good team. Like it was a team effort. And I really rose up and saw a lot of what I was capable of because I was surrounded by people who were constantly challenging the status quo and encouraging each other and wanting to be the best. We were competitive. And I just thrived in that really high challenge environment.


 

David Schwab It's so interesting listening to you talk about this, because I know like now you're your coach and you coach major gift officers and you and you coach leaders. But what I'm hearing is as this context comes through is you learned the craft by watching it demonstrated to you. And so many people don't have that opportunity. It makes so much sense to see you work yourself into that role as a coach and for lack of a better term, return the favor of being able to demonstrate what courageous fundraising looks like. And Julie, as we were having a conversation, one of our conversations before this, you said something that reminded me of a mutual friend of ours, Andrew Olson. Andrew was on the podcast about a year ago, and he said something at the time that kind of just left me speechless. And I had to like quickly gather myself because, you know, I'm posting the podcast and I got to cover conversation, like he said, targeted to to executive leaders at organizations. If you're more comfortable in maintaining the status quo and your comfort than you are about accelerating the impact of your organization, you're probably in the wrong seat.


 

Julie Ordoñez Mm hmm.


 

David Schwab And in one of our conversations recently, you said something that that reminded me of that you said quite bluntly, People are afraid to do their jobs. They lack the courage to make the impact that their organizations need. And that's where I want to I want to go for the next portion of our conversation is what brought you to that conclusion that it's maybe not an education or a talent or even like an equipping issue. It's a character issue that is hurting our sector from making the impact that it should.


 

Julie Ordoñez Yes. So the good news is that many of us are cowards. Because we have control over that. And even, you know, when I when I first started in fundraising, people were, like, apologetic. And that was kind of the vibe. That was the sense that I got was like, oh, oh, I got a raise, you know, $1.2 million. But I got to do it on eggshells. Mm hmm. Like, for some reason. And I was like, Why? What we're doing is amazing. Like, we're actually changing lives, and people get to be a part of that. Like, why? And definitely I have been a coward. I definitely when I was at United Way, I'm sitting down with a with a partner from a big law firm and I take up an hour of his time and all I can bring myself to ask for is $2,500. And I'll never forget the look on his face. He was like, He was so disappointed. He was like, Sure, Julie, here's $2,500. And he pulled out his checkbook from his briefcase right then and wrote it out and was like, Have a great week and walked away. And I think I learned so much from that meeting that I will never forget it. It was a branded in my mind that we can waste people's time by asking for too little. Mm hmm. If someone is actually in your corner, if they are passionate about the mission. Passion, meaning they're willing to sacrifice for it. They're willing to give up an hour of their time. And for this guy, his billable hours, I don't know what that is. You know, he's losing out time with his family, with his kids, with doing whatever else he could be doing with his time that he cannot get back. And because I personally viewed $2,500 as a lot of money as a 25 year old.


 

David Schwab Right.


 

Julie Ordoñez I mean, but for him, it was like, really? You asked me here for an hour of my time and you told me all about what you're doing to end homelessness. And all you're going to ask me for is $2,500. Sure. Here you go. See? Never.


 

David Schwab Yeah.


 

Julie Ordoñez And the more relationships that I built, the more networking that I did, the more that I connected with other fundraisers, other major gifts' officers, people in all types of fundraising roles. It was pervasive. People were terrified. They're like, Oh, I would rather work myself to the bone. David, and do 80 hour weeks planning a gala that we don't even make any money doing that. We just barely break even. I'd rather apply for grants and get $0 than talk to one person and ask them to their face for ten grand. Like I would rather do anything like sign me up for a root canal before I do major gifts. And I'm like, How are these people? I mean, it's it's kind of absurd. How are people paid to do these jobs? Like you are paid to raise money. If you're a nonprofit CEO, a big chunk of your role is to serve as a major gifts officer. If you are the head of development, if you are a development officer, it's it's your it's within your integrity to actually do the job to the fullest extent. And what I see so often is people are going back and forth about whether or not they're going to do their job. Like they're like, oh, I need to collect these company logos for the Web site. Oh, I got to organize them. I'm like, no, you don't. Like, your job is fundraising. Like, how do you not have time to do that? Like, oh, because we're cowards. Because we are so concerned with making the board member who's ignorant happy. With meeting other people's expectations who are also well-meaning and well-intentioned but entirely ignorant about what it takes to raise money. That we're apologetic because we're so consumed with taking care of people's feelings. And this is a particular burden on women and women of color. They have even more obstacles and barriers to overcome with this that society expects them to perform at a higher level with even less support and more barriers. And it's an inside job. So here we are and we go to all these trainings and we're so concerned with strategy and all of these things, but we don't have the guts to implement what we learn. And this is pervasive. Mm hmm. People think that their problems are special, but I'm like, Your problems are you don't have the guts to implement what you already know to do. Like you know what to do. You just don't do it. That's the problem. And it has to do with what do we really value? What do we believe about who we are? What do we believe about donors? Do we believe that they're stingy and greedy? Like all of these things have to do with whether we feel encouraged to take bold action or not. And so that's why I created my program Courage Lab, because I was like, there's nowhere you could go in the market that's going to help you learn major gifts strategy that's going to train you how to ask, how to close. What do you do with 45 minutes with a donor? What do you say? And is going to address the fact that you are full of fear to even get a meeting? There was nowhere in the market that you could go, David, to address that reality. And I'm like, well, I'm just going to become a student of courage and I'm going to teach this because this is the biggest barrier to us changing the world. Courage is the catalyst. It is the thing that is encouraging because we have control over who we become and who we are. If we stay in cowardice or if we decide to become courageous people. And that's good news.


 

David Schwab I can't tell you how excited it makes me feel just listening to you talk about this and like, I spend so much time with the sales team at fundraisers because like, my job is, is to help our company grow, right? And a lot of that is partnering with our sales team. And so much of what I gather from the conversations that our sales team have and there's there's a like the connection connective tissue between major gift officer and and sales roles are so, so similar and those connections have been made ad nauseum. But one of the conversations that I think makes the most sense in this picture that I have often with the sales team is you're not offering someone a tchotchke, right? Like at fundraisers, we are not offering something someone doesn't need. Like we are giving you a tool to help you better engage with your donors so you can raise more funds faster and make a bigger impact. Who doesn't want that, right? Yeah. Like go in boldly to these conversations because you're offering something that someone doesn't know that they need. But once they understand they need it, they're really going to want it. How much more? So is a major gift, officer, Like you're not selling something someone doesn't need. You're offering someone a chance to make a difference in the world that they care about. Yep. And are you limiting their impact by your fear of asking them to make the impact they're capable of?


 

Julie Ordoñez Right.

 

 

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Now that you’ve heard how Funraise can radically change your nonprofit’s fundraising game, let’s get back to the conversation.

 

 

David Schwab As our listeners are listening to this, most are doing final prep on their year-end fundraising strategy, fundraising planning. Julie, how can we help our listeners who are going? I have a delta between where I am and where I need to be, and it is a lot bigger than I think I can handle. What are some things that major gift officers and fundraising teams can do as we think about year-end to secure that big whale meeting? Right. To plan a program where you're disappointed at the success even though it's three X, which you did last year. What are the ways to navigate conversations during the year-end with potential major donors or even existing major donors? And so that's that's part one. And then peppered in there, I really want to think about like the mindset of a major gift officer during your own fundraising and how how can you be courageous and approach this year? Because we know this is going to be one of the more difficult years. Many people in the industry have ever had to raise funds during the end of the year.


 

Julie Ordoñez That's great. So a few maxims or beliefs that I try to instill in my clients and that I believe. Giving is a gift to the giver and that's what you just touched on, that what you're building is a gift for that person to be a part of, truly. That there are hundreds, thousands potentially of people who are mission-aligned, care deeply and are ready to step up and give right now. They're already there you just need to follow up with them, you need to make it easier for them to give. You need to get to know them, connect with them. So it is in many ways getting in a lot of reps. It is a volume game for some of those bigger shops. If you're raising millions of dollars already, then a lot of times it is about getting through your portfolio and touching base with people and disqualifying leads who are no longer interested, no longer aligned. It's not their priority to give to your mission and you need to like move on faster and stop mulling it over. Like if you're going to build more courage, a big component of that is getting around people who are also becoming more courageous. You don't become a more courageous person in isolation. Actually, you don't change at all in isolation. We devolve in isolation. So the only way to actually overcome mediocrity and overcome our old habits and talking ourselves out of taking action and I had a client today was like, Yeah, Julie, I just really love to pick your brain because there's somebody that I just been going back and forth about Should I reach out or what should I ask them for? Like how much, you know, they they're going to have this wealth event possibly in March. Should I ask them for an end-of-year gift? I am like, okay, so first thing, let's address the fact that you're going back and forth about it. So you're you're headed into your logical strategic thinking mind, which that portion of our mind takes a hell of a lot of energy. And and you're using it on, let's be honest, an opportunity that maybe they give 5 or 10. K Right. And he's like, Yeah, okay, so we're going to stop that. If it's not an opportunity that's over 50 K, I don't want you to spend a ton of time going back and forth. That's a waste of time and energy, ultimately money. So if it's something like that, it's pretty low risk. You can level with them. You can say, Hey, I know you're having this wealth event in March, but I know you're really passionate, David, about what we're doing. So would you consider giving something year end. And just have a freaking conversation with a human being? We're so focused on money, actually, that it suffocates our revenue. It suffocates our success. And what I tell my clients is we're not we're not coming for their money. We're coming for their whole life. And that includes their money. I don't want people to limit themselves to just focusing on money with people. Because it feels gross First of all, because it is and because this isn't actually about money. This is about changing the world. This is about a specific impact. And when you engage someone from that place of I know that this is a gift to them and their life, we're bringing meaning and purpose. We're bringing connection to them. This is a gift to them. And if this person if it's not the right time or if they say no, there's a thousand other people who will say yes. If you approach it from that perspective and just connect with another human being, you will raise way more money. When I come to a donor meeting and I'm like, Hey, so this is what we do want to join. I'd love for you to consider giving $300,000. What do you think? And I'm not like, you know, so our goals are and 2 million and would you could you you know it's like no either you want and or you don't and it's all good if you don't want to join. Listen, I got so many other meetings that I'm going to go meet with and we can stay in touch. But, like, there's no there's no pressure. You know, and and when we don't take action, when we go back and forth about something, we erode our confidence. We slowly are like, oh, my gosh, I'm an imposter. I don't know what I'm doing. I haven't raised any money. And then you just keep overthinking, talking to one person, and this one conversation becomes such a big deal. But it's just one rep. Mm hmm. Right. So it is in many ways a game of volume like you have. If you want to get better, you first have to be okay with being bad. Mm hmm. And just decide that you're going to take risks because your why is worth it. The community that you're fighting for is worth you being uncomfortable, and you're going to get better as you go. I've gone on well over a thousand donor meetings. I have absolutely put my foot in my mouth many times. And I've learned because of that that nobody can teach me. Nobody can take that away. It's in my bones. So because of that, I come in with even greater confidence because I've had all these reps and I know that failure can't kill me. It just can't. I'm literally unstoppable because I've done it bad. I've done it great. I've turned a 20 K gift into a $300,000 gift in one conversation because I've done this a lot and I have built that skill set over the course of time. So getting into action and getting around other people who are also asking for more is really critical if you want to become more courageous fundraiser.


 

David Schwab So if I'm parroting, do it. Ask, ask often and surround yourself with people who aren't afraid to ask and ask often.


 

Julie Ordoñez Yes. And get to know people as human beings. Like when you ask them for more and they're in they're literally more bought in. Yeah. So they will bring more of their life to the table. They'll say, Hey, David, you know what? Actually, I'm going to give you $25,000 this year because you asked and I have this event that I'm going to. And it's a bunch of other executives. I'd like for you to be my plus one. They'll start opening up organically, you know, doors to you because they're seeing that you're serious about this. You're no longer apologetic about raising money. And so now they're going to open up their life to you in ways that they didn't before.


 

David Schwab That is something that I have been spending quite a bit of time recently thinking about, that you just touched on, is it's one thing to unlock a donor's wallet and have them give a gift. It's another thing to unlock a donor's passion and have them give a substantial gift. It's a whole different ballgame to unlock specifically a major donors network. And what you just talked about could possibly be the most influential action a major gift officer can take is building the relationship not just to unlock the donor. The major donors philanthropic generosity. But unlock access to their network. Because that compounds the impact that that one conversation, that one relationship that you've invested in building is able to do. Can you tell us just story time here? Tell us about a time where you've experienced that.


 

Julie Ordoñez Yeah, I can think of so many. I remember, gosh, when I was director of development, I lived Los Angeles, which was such a fun job. What an incredible organization. So impactful. Amazing advisory board. And they helped with fundraising, which unfortunately is kind of rare. Right? I mean, and the board chair at the time was Kash Warren and really, really passionate and a competitive guy. And I was like, okay, I know that you want to do a good job as board chair and you kind of want to like, you want to kill it. And he was like, Yeah. And I was like, Great. So let's sit down and talk about, like, what you can do. So we did. We met up in his favorite spot to meet, and we went through and he just started talking. He's telling me the names of his friends and people in his network and he'd say like, Oh, I think this person can do something. And I'd say, okay, well, what's something? And he's like, oh, you know, like 15 K Okay, great. So I write that down. I'm, I'm just taking notes and just listening to him kind of talk. Fast forward a year later and through his network, he had raised over $225,000. And this is new money. Mm hmm. And I was able to work with him and his assistant to hold accountable to all the things that he said he was going to do and support him. And he did an amazing job. And I think part of why that was successful was because I saw his desire to do a really good job and I actually put him to work. And oftentimes I think a lot of CEOs, a lot of VP's of development, even have some complaints about how their board doesn't do enough for them right there. The board is they're great cheerleaders, but they remain largely unhelpful. And I think being really specific and clear about what it the help is that you need and seeing where that board member or even donor trusted volunteer, where they're at, where their energy is and and actually leveraging that so that they feel like a success. And that makes the team successful, that makes the organization successful. You really have to see people. You have to have conversations with them and get to know them and understand what their motivation is, understand what drives them. And and I think that that takes time. And time is at a premium. We don't have a lot of it and this and that. The frustrating thing for me is I see a lot of executives spend the most time with the people who have a lot of complaints and who are the loudest. And the people who are really in your corner, the people who would go. Walk a thousand miles with you. Don't really get any of your time. And that is a massive mistake. And again, it has to do with courage. If someone is toxic, we need to fire them. We need to release them. Mm hmm. And probably if you already know who that is, you need to do it yesterday. And then you will have the space, the bandwidth, the energy to be able to invest in people who would multiply ten times what you pour into them because they're in your corner. They're they're catalytic. They're people who have energy and motivation and enthusiasm for what you're doing, and you need to put those people to work.


 

David Schwab That's awesome. And I think something that can be become so fruitful as major gift to officers and fundraisers in general, build relationships and build relationships. They learn how to identify those relationships that unlock other relationships. And how do you create those warm introductions and how do you get people to work for you? Because they want to and they're passionate about it, even though they get nothing out of it other than that really substantial feeling of making an impact. Julia We're going to be winding our time down here, but I have to ask from your expert perspective, all of the conversations you're having with major gift officers and the people you work with and the people you coach, I'm assuming you have a really you'll have a really insightful opinion on this, but I want to ask you what trends you see coming our way. Either specific as as a major gift officer or fundraising trends in general as we wind down the rest of 2023 and look to 2024, what are a few trends that you're hearing? A lot of people are paying attention to or you yourself are paying attention to, and how are you navigating those?


 

Julie Ordoñez David I hope that I don't disappoint you, but I don't really care that much about trends. You know, a lot of people are talking about AI and, you know, so many of my clients use AI to to write do a lot of copywriting, which for me, I can often tell immediately that it's I, you know, I just kind of see it as right now a lot of AI is, is pretty mediocre. So I'm not really interested in mediocrity. I would rather help people actually become great writers. I think what I'm, I think is an enduring foundational piece of fundraising success is relationship building and actually the rise of AI highlights that I will never be able to empathize. I will never be able to tell its story. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And there are some things that, as human beings are going to become even more valuable and priceless because we. We get so little of it, which is authentic connection with each other. And I think that that's really what this is all about. I would love for nonprofit leaders to build an army of people who are mission-aligned and who are ready to join the fight and roll up their sleeves and give a massive amount of money and give from their lives, from their network. Mm hmm. Opening up doors and opportunities. Making it happen. Because what we're setting out to achieve, it's going to take a lot of capital, but it's going to take even more than that. Mm hmm. And I think that people who authentically care about others, it's just becoming even more rare. And I think that that's a big way in which you can stand out, is if you really care about people and you treat them as a whole human being beyond their wallet and their assets. That's going to make people stand out moving forward because we are seeing a decline in a lot of giving. We're seeing a decline in people stepping up and giving. And I think that at the core, people are are truly generous. I just think that we make it so hard for them to give and to stick with us.


 

David Schwab Yeah, I think I heard a couple of things. One of the things I heard specifically and I completely agree with. Artificial intelligence widely acknowledged as the great equalizer. And a lot of people think that's a great thing because it brings it brings people who have lesser talents, lesser skills in a certain area up to a higher caliber. But what we often overlook is the fact that it brings high achievers and people who excel at a at a practice down. So what I'm the trend that that you. You are picking up on us as we progressively become more vanilla. Be chocolate or strawberry or something that stands out.


 

Julie Ordoñez Now I want ice cream.


 

David Schwab It's almost time. I'm going to dinner right after this. And they just opened a new restaurant in town and they're known for, like, the big pizza-sized cookies with ice cream on it.


 

Julie Ordoñez Ah yeah.


 

David Schwab And. So I may, I may have an ulterior motive for bringing that up.


 

Julie Ordoñez Got it. Got it.


 

David Schwab Refocusing at a time when people are devaluing relationships and anonymity is becoming the expectation when you can foster relationships and that feeling of being known. You will find great areas of success. You talked about one other trend that's facing us. It's it's I often refer to it as the headwinds going into this season of and everyone we're not I promise we're not going to unpack again the giving report of 2020 to 2023 where revenue is down and giving is down all this humdrum Ilike you I don't think the motivation has changed. I think people are being more intentional with their giving. So at a time when we're facing headwinds and it looks like giving is down and it looks like philanthropy and generosity is down. What is one courageous thing our listeners can do this giving season and beyond to buck that trend?


 

Julie Ordoñez Name what you see in your donors. Mm hmm. If you see that they are generous people, tell them if you see that they are kind and caring. Tell them if you actually truly want to partner with them because of what they bring and who they are. Tell them. Call out the characteristics that you see in them as to why you want them to be on your team and support you financially and then ask them for more. That formula is evergreen. It has served me my entire career. It speaks to exactly what you're talking about, David, that people want to feel known and actually be known. Mm hmm. And it's I see my clients do that all the time, and it brings that person closer. They feel like an extension of your team. They show up for you in ways that you don't even have to ask. And, you know, practically speaking, ask people who have dafs donor-advised funds for even more money. Mm hmm. If there's a gap that needs to be made up for. Ask them. Ask people who are really in your corner to give more. Ask for non-liquid assets. Stop asking for cash. Ask for $50K, $100K, $250K. Ask for what you actually need. Stop playing it cool. And ask for non-liquid assets. Ask for appreciated stock. Ask for them to give from assets that they have that you know maybe they haven't considered previously. We train donors to think about cash and credit cards and we leave so much on the table because people want to give more and 90% of wealth is non-liquid.


 

David Schwab Mm hmm. Julie, so much great insight during this episode and throughout this conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today. As we wrap here, I'm assuming everyone listening is going to want to go deeper with you. Where is a great place for our listeners to connect with you? Reach out and engage with you.


 

Julie Ordoñez I love LinkedIn. So hang out with me there. Julie Ordonez Oh, audio and easy. You can also head to my website. Julie ordonez.com. You can sign up for my mailing list. I share all kinds of major gifts, trainings and resources that will help you raise major gifts instantly if you join that. So I want to help as many missions and as many leaders as I possibly can. I want to create a more generous and just world. That's my personal mission and why I do this. So connect with me. I would love to connect.


 

David Schwab Well, everybody, thank you for listening. This has been a jam-packed episode. So much to unpack. I hope you go back, listen to it. I look forward to hearing what you all think. Remember. Subscribe. Leave us a comment. Leave us a review and let us know what you think on LinkedIn. Thanks, everybody.

 

 

Thanks for listening to this episode of Nonstop Nonprofit! This podcast is brought to you by your friends at Funraise - Nonprofit fundraising software, built for nonprofit people by nonprofit people. If you’d like to continue the conversation, find me on LinkedIn or text me at 714-717-2474. 

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